• http://arnoldwaldstein.com/ awaldstein

    Funny, I’ve been writing about gestures this afternoon as well.

    I like your post but I look at this quite differently.

    Gestures in the real world are the deeply meaningly non verbal clues we give with body language, fashion, a wink of an eye.

    The reason Facebook and Pinterest and others connected is that they let us move that type of gesture online. They provided a platform for gestures.

    Engagement through comments are not gestures to my mind, they are conversation and language. One is the language, the other the pulse of the body that surrounds them. Complimentary but governed by a different set of rules and expressions.

    • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

      Great minds think alike. That topic has a lot of depth to it.

      I think if you respond to someone in the comment space, that’s a social gesture that you’re interested in them or in their comment. I regard each comment as an implicit link to a person, and with a potential relationship in-waiting.

      Beyond that, there is a potential engagement gesture that might come into play. I’m going to discuss it in Part II :)

    • FAKE GRIMLOCK

      EMOTICONS NEXT BIG SOCIAL PLATFORM?

      SOME DAY IN FUTURE, KIDS SPEND ALL DAY JUST SENDING DIFFERENT SMILEY FACES TO EACH OTHER…

      • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

        Hahaha. Maybe. I think there definitely is something to “expression-based-marketplaces” like Tumblr/Path are looking at building.

        One possible example of this: have you seen the mobile app Pair’s “thumb kiss” feature? 

        • FAKE GRIMLOCK

          NO.

          • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

            Not sure they have a DINO-KISS feature, so I wouldn’t waste my time looking for it if I was you. 

            Their loss, for sure..

      • panterosa,

        There are binary pair facial expressions coded into the brain. They would be the emoticons.
        I found about about these pairs at a WSF lecture on Eye Candy 2 years ago and drawing which included neurologists, cartoonist and 3-D filmer. It was such a keystone presentation on how the brain processes line as representation of 3D. You would have loved it.

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          See my comment on combining gestures with emotions, e.g. Like with happy face, Like with sad face, etc..Then you can have an infinite number of these…possibly.

        • FAKE GRIMLOCK

          SMILEY FACE MORE POWERFUL THAN WORDS BECAUSE WORDS LEARNED.

          SMILEY FACE HARD CODED INTO DNA.

      • http://arnoldwaldstein.com/ awaldstein

        They already are on sms.Group texting testing with context maybe.I’m moreso interested in adding depth to gestures. The next frontier that interests me is gestures as language, not just gestures as utterance and body language.

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          What if you combined gestures with emotions? Eg. Like with a happy face. Like with a sad face, etc…

          • http://arnoldwaldstein.com/ awaldstein

            I don’t think that is where we are going.In real life, gestures are the color to words, the rhythm to the lyrics. Nothing is more powerful than a well place smile or eye roll or smirk.Gestures and sharing 1.0 are over. They are noise.2.0 is already surfacing. Smart companies with a mobile first perspective, wrapped in context are figuring out how to add true value with a thumb tap. They are figuring out how to plumb data and surface it inplicitly. Gestures are no longer the realm of emoticons, they are the game changers of a rollled eye or a turned shoulder. A completely different ball game.

      • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

        I’ll have to look into that. thx.

  • http://twitter.com/davemacboston Dave McLaughlin

    This is very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to tease out these thoughts. Helpful.

    • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

      Tease it is, indeed :)

  • http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

    Interesting thoughts, William. I would need to think about this some more before commenting meaningfully. But this is interesting food for thought and I look forward to the next installment. At first blush, I am wondering if there may be more of a matrix involved in determining what the gestures signal. Factors such as the existing relationship with the person and the amount of time and attention available in the given moment may determine the intention of a particular gesture.

    I’ve also learned through another discussion — I think on @msuster’s blog that favoriting can be a form of curation.

    Just some quick thoughts. Thanks for the post.

    • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

      True that Favoriting can be seen as a curation signal. Maybe it should be in that bucket, I agree. 

      I like your granular thinking regarding factoring the existing relationship dynamics. I’m thinking about the implications of that.  Thanks. 

    • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

      Donna, that’s actually really interesting. First time I read your comment I didn’t think of this, but having re-read it I just had a thought: it’s almost like you are pointing out that depending on depth/closeness of the existing relationship, particular social gestures can have very different meaning/impact person-to-person, yes?

      If that’s what you’re getting at, I really agree with you. For example, if I had left a comment on here and you responded to it and commented back, that would be so cool for me because I see you in the AVC comments all the time! Whereas, it probably is somewhat ‘less of a big deal’ if you and JLM comment back and forth because of your “existing relationship dynamic” (to use William’s term!)… that just reinforces the relationship you both already have – right?

      Also, you make a good point about how one’s intention can differ even when using the same lightweight social gesture. I feel you. For sure. It’s just like on Facebook: when my mom likes my photo, her intention (probably one of “loving/affection”) is a totally different intention than a girl I met at a party recently liking my photo (her intention could be one of “flirting”) or my best bro liking my photo (his intention could be one of “staying in touch”, etc.)

      ** 
      Last thought on your comment, I’ve found even the lightest weight social gestures can do a ton in keeping a friendship active when you’re separated by a long distance. When I “share a link” on Twitter and get “retweeted” by a girl friend in France who I haven’t seen since studying abroad in Singapore two years ago, it can bring back memories of her and keep thoughts of her present in my mind, you know?

      • http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

        Great comment!

        You clearly described the problem that has plagued semantic analysis for years – conditional meaning or context outside of the immediate conversation

        Good stuff

        • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

          Mark, wow I didn’t even think of that. Of course you would pop over here and drop some golden insights on semantic analysis. 

          In fact, I’m almost certain I too remember the conversation Donna mentioned that she saw on Suster’s blog about this sort of stuff… and I believe YOU were alllllllllll over it in the comments. Right?

          Again, thanks for this shout out. Made my night so far haha. 
          -X

          • http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

            I might have O_o. Now I gotta track down that thread

          • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

            Haha – drop the URL here if you find it, I bet @donnawhite:disqus would ‘ppreshiate being able to refer back to the post that seems to have inspired her thoughts here

          • http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

            here it is ( I think ). http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2010/12/20/the-power-of-twitter-in-information-discovery/
            I can’t remember if I commented on that

          • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

            Ha, nice find. I remember that post. I think that is the one @donnawhite:disqus  was referencing in her comment here. 

            However my man, I just dug around and THIS is the post I was thinking of that you were all over in the comments haha: http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2011/02/01/making-the-internet-smarter-at-helping-us/

          • http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

            Great discussion. I have to find more time to visit Mark’s blog. He is such a consistently solid blogger, although a Full work schedule makes even short visits tough.

          • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

            Since 20TEN, Suster has been my favorite blogger haha. Haven’t missed a single post since. Without a doubt he is the man! 

          • http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

            Actually it was this one http://bit.ly/HNrG59 that I was thinking of — more focused on favorite-ing rather than social gestures in general.

            Do you ever wonder when Suster has time to think of these things?

      • http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

        Really good amplification of my thoughts, John, and taking it a few steps further. I see you have shared a lot of other good thoughts in this thread as well!

        • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

          Aw man, your compliment is the ultimate affirmation of my Monday Night Commenting-Instead-of-Homework Hustle hhahahah. Seriously though, thank you for saying that. Definitely great to meet you in the comments after reading yours for so long on AVC!

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          John drank the Kool aid I slipped him a month ago. It just had a delayed effect on his reaction.

      • FAKE GRIMLOCK

        INTENT SAME. RAMIFICATION DIFFERENT.

        LIKE = “EXPRESS APPROVAL” + REINFORCE RELATIONSHIP

        IF RELATIONSHIP NOT EXIST, RAMIFICATION OF REINFORCE ZERO IS MAKE MORE THAN ZERO.

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          There is a symbiotic relationship between people relationships online and offline. A strong offline relationship leads to more online interaction and deepening an online one can lead to a strong offline relationship. Ying/Yang. That’s the thesis of Engagio btw-, more or less.

    • http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

      props for quickly identifying conditional meaning (and emotional value)

      • http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

        I’ll take props from you any day!

  • http://avc.com fredwilson

    it’s interesting that tweeting, by limiting the gesture to 140 words, is a quick way to get conversational engagement. i wonder if it could be extended to commenting. i know that when i dive into a 300 comment thread, i tend to reply in one sentence or less to most comments

    • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

      Very true. 140 chars forces you to be very succinct & punchy. I wished there was more interaction-oriented overtures on Twitter vs. plain sharing via RT or link baits. I wonder what the stats are on Twitter threads that have at least 1 Reply.

      • http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

        Twiiter leads to wonderful back channel discussions- offline and personal is ideal for many conversations.

    • http://www.startupboyo.com/ RichardF

      I think Twitter has increasingly become a broadcast medium, I’m not seeing too much conversational engagement.

      The one area on Twitter where there is two way interaction is customer support and not necessarily because companies want to interact with a customer but because if they don’t it openly damages their reputation.

      • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

        That’s a great point Richard re: Customer Service – defensive vs proactive.

        Sometimes there are good conversations on Twitter, but they are the exception.

        • http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

          But sometimes I only want a Twitter style interaction. — short and sweet.

      • http://avc.com fredwilson

        The @replies aren’t well surfaced so much of the conversation is hidden

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          Exactly. As if the conversation threading disappeared on Twitter. It should be like on Disqus or Engagio.

          • http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

            Exactly. Engagio and Disqus are spoiling me — not enough to see isolated comments any more — at least most of the time. However one of the aspects of Disqus 2012 I’m having trouble with is that the feed is not as self-explanatory. I don’t know who is commenting to whom much of time. Saving that up for my feedback notes. You and Daniel should merge anyway. Oh, wait, did I say that? ;)

          • http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

            And I’ve got another one in mind too but have already stuck my foot in it.

          • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

            You are very social online, Donna. I think you enjoy it- just like I do.

          • JamesHRH

            impossible to manage 200+ people all wanting to talk at you at the same time.

            Twitter is like time warner cable – download 100x of upload.

            Twitter is a headline service – not a conversation platform.

          • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

            Fair – although I would argue that any service as big as Twitter will in some part be customized by the users and have lots of different uses… i.e. as Fred Wilson has said about large networks of engaged users before:

            “Users will put their own personality and opinions into a service and therefore make it their own”

            I am sure some people use Twitter as a ‘conversation platform’, though few will ever get in as in-depth a conversation as many of us are having here. 

            **

            Also, one data point on the flip side: Gary Vaynerchuk. Fake Grimlock doesn’t think Gary engages in conversations on Twitter — or maybe, at all/ever: https://twitter.com/#!/JohnExley/status/192434563522375680 — but there is something to be said about how he is able to manage 200+ people wanting to talk to him at the same time and has been able to manage that to some degree of success for 4-5 years now in a row… right? And, he has done so largely on Twitter, right?

            Still, just one data point and we’ve already discussed in other comments how the greaaaaaaatttt majority of Gary’s Twitter “conversations” are one-word/emoticon responses..

          • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

            Yes and no. There are some good spontaneous conversations that occur, but I’ll admit they are a rarity.

      • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

        Hey Richard, I think Fred touched on the reason you’re not seeing as much conversational engagement on Twitter anymore – I think it’s mostly a Twitter design “issue”, or rather just the intentional direction Twitter/Jack have taken the product in. 

        Remember, if you don’t add a word or something like a period in front of the “@” symbol to start a tweet, the only followers of yours who will see it are the ones who are **also following** the person you are mentioning. Thus, quite a lot of conversations are hidden from the stream. 

        However, as William hinted at, this is one of the use-cases of Engagio. It keeps all of your conversations (not just Twitter actually) in one place. For someone like me who uses Twitter religiously for conversations and to keep up with friends and stuff, having a place where I know every conversation is saved so I won’t miss it is really clutch.

        • panterosa,

          But aren’t conversations simply more broadcast? 

    • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

      Fred, your thought on limitations enabling a quicker way to get conversational engagement (e.g. Twitter’s 140 character limit) reminded me of two things:

      1) In my understanding, it is currently being beta-tested with Branch’s beta (they limit comments and commenters, not sure how much tho): http://beta.branch.com/on-sunday-i-m-interviewing-nick-denton-at-sxsw-about-gawker-the-failure-of-comments-have-web-comments-failed

      2) I believe it has been extended to email in the past, with services like http://three.sentenc.es/

      3) Back in late 2010, Gary Vaynerchuk predicted that “limitation services” would be important in the coming few years in an interview with Leo Laporte here (starting around the 52:36 mark): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQot_dwAXj0&t=52m36s 

      • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

        Cool insight John. 2 words for you- http://Thank.you/

        • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

          Aaaahaha thanks William, you’re the man!

    • http://knowabout.it/ falicon

      I have struggled with this thought for a very long time myself…1/2 of me wants to see tons of comments from everyone and 1/2 of me wants to see quick and insightful comments from just the select few stars of a topic…

      This is no more obvious to me then on the AVC blog…if I get in early to the post, I almost always leave a comment and think more about the topic…if I come late to the party, at best I respond to a few key thoughts…because the volume is already too much (and I can’t read through it all in any reasonable time)…in those cases, I scan the page for the few ‘stars’ I recognize and then see what they have to say…the rest I unfort. ignore.

      I’ve forever been hacking on different bits of Disqus to try and solve this issue for myself (I really don’t want to just see comments from the people I already know, but I don’t have time to read everything from everyone…so how to get the best, quality, mix for me?)…I’m convinced it’s not just a UI/UX thing…if anything, I’m convinced that it’s an A.I. thing…and sadly we are still *way* too weak in our A.I. advancements…

      • http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

        We need more A kiptin
        Trained by our interests

      • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

        True, it’s easier to come early where you’re at the starting point of the thinking and comments direction, vs. coming in later and you have to spend time catching-up.

        On your other point, I don’t think it’s a Disqus issue, is it? (unless I misunderstood it)

        • http://knowabout.it/ falicon

          Yeah – it’s not a disqus thing per-se…it’s just that I feel the pain of ‘no good solution’ the most right now within my Disqus experience (and most specifically on Fred’s blog).

          • panterosa,

            AVC is such a timing thing of early and late entry into the conversation. The argument is in two categories. One is where you want read about comments to the post which are insightful to the topic. And the second is where you want to engage with another commenter in dialogue which is about the relationship.

            It depends on the time you have, your intention, and how engaged you are in the topic.

          • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

            That’s very true. Some topics strike a cord more than others and that determines a user’s engagement dynamics.

          • panterosa,

            Yes, the engagement in many threads can end up in such a variety of topics which have meandered from the post. I wonder whether it would be useful to people to distinguish which type of conversation they had. After all, we end up in so many conversations. Do you consider a way to tag conversations in Engagio in such a manner?

      • FAKE GRIMLOCK

        UX IS JUST AI ROUTINE RUN IN BRAIN OF USER.

        NEED BETTER UX, NOT BETTER AI.

        • http://knowabout.it/ falicon

          Unless that brain is in my head…very weak…def. need better AI…or at least better I. ;-)

          • FAKE GRIMLOCK

            MAJOR CHALLENGE OF UX IS MAKE WORK ON HUMAN HARDWARE WITH HIGHLY UNRELIABLE SPECS.

    • FAKE GRIMLOCK

      BE LIKE HUMAN.

      WHEN HUMAN TALK TO OTHER HUMAN, IT IN SMALL BURSTS, TAKE TURNS.

      IF TALK FOR VERY LONG TIME WITH NO TURN FOR ANYONE ELSE, YOU EITHER VERY INTERESTING, OR ASS.

      TWITTER/FB FIRST BIG INTERNET TOOLS FOCUS ON BE HUMAN INSTEAD OF ASS.

      • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

        first order of business: salute to the legend in the making, FG. 

        You make a good point here. The ‘self-monologue-salesman’ who can’t help him/herself from rambling on forever and ever without taking a breath is absolutely The Worst to be around in real life right? 

        I have a question for you though, and it might be tangental from what you’re getting at with your comment but this is what I thought of just now reading it: what do you think of the way @garyvee:disqus communicates in real life and online? 

        He’s one of if not THE biggest hero of mine when it comes to business. However, in interviews (and I’ve watched SO SO SO many of his interviews), it’s like Gary is trying soooooooooo hard to contain himself but almost never can. He almost always, always, always cuts off the person asking him questions and then seems to talk as if the world is going to end any minute and he’s trying to squeeze 10 hours of information into a 3 minute interview answer – you feel me? Then, on Twitter, he takes turns from talking – but almost always the only response he’ll give is a “:)”, “thnx pal”, “that’s hustle”, “#crushit”, etc. right? Super fast, almost the equivalent of the absolutely dreaded one-word “K” text message response. 

        BUT – people LOVE LOVE LOVE Gary Vee. Somehow, every single time he shows up in my mentions I get pumped and wanna jump out of my chair – even tho I know he’s tweeting thousands of people at once and when I inevitably go to his feed, I see hundreds of almost identical tweets being sent to tons of people at the same time. Stil means so much to me. 

        Not sure if I have a conclusion here and I know my question to you was crazy broad/open-ended, but just curious of how you look at Gary’s style of engagement versus your own. 

        Keep hustling man, love what you do – especially the cartoon sketches and stuff. So legit. 

        • FAKE GRIMLOCK

          GARY V NOT COMMUNICATE. HIM BEAT YOU TO DEATH WITH HIM PERSONALITY UNTIL YOU SURRENDER.

          IT FUNNY HOW HIM REACT WHEN MEET SOMEONE NO CAN BLUDGEON.

          • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

            Lol. This comment is exactly why there should be a movement behind you, FG. Frankly, there probably is already one isn’t there? 

            That’s so hysterical how you describe Gary here. It’s like you are “The Charlemagne” of the startup world… I don’t think many people would say what you did, but tons will laugh and probably nod their head if they read that. However, since Gary is just simply the definition of THE MAN, he can essentially ‘get away with’ this style of non-communication, right? 

            To this day, even after obsessing over Gary’s keynotes, interviews, and video blogs for almost 4 straight years… just watching/listening to five minutes of Gary is the equivalent for me of drinking a pot of coffee or turning on a pump up song by Fabolous/Lil Wayne/Eminem etc. you know? 

            ** 
            I admit I’m not really a good example for brevity, but would love to understand more of what you’re thinking around your last point there about how Gary reacts when he meets someone who isn’t ‘swooned’ by his swag and hustle but instead gives his ideas thoughtful, logical pushback. At least that’s how I interpreted your last sentence.

      • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

        It would be good to see the real stats on engagement comparing Twitter and Facebook.

      • http://lehrblogger.com lehrblogger

        What about chat/instant messaging? Twitter/FB are the first big *asynchronous* Internet tools that help people focus on being humans instead of asses, but we’ve been taking turns communicating in small bursts online for a long time.

        • FAKE GRIMLOCK

          CHAT 1 TO FEW. THAT WHY ME SAY BIG. FB ONE TO MANY. TWITTER ONE TO EVERYONE. THAT DIFFERENT FROM CHAT.

    • http://twitter.com/joshm Josh Miller

      After instituting a 500 character limit on Branch posts, we saw our avg. # posts/conversation increase from ~15 to ~30… 

      it makes the content more digestible and forces people to refine their thoughts.

      • http://avc.com fredwilson

        i wonder if i should put a limit on comments here at AVC

        • http://knowabout.it/ falicon

          probably no…but if you do my guess is that it will spawn at least a few new blogs and quality bloggers (because responses that require longer answers will just be links over to full thoughts).

          So could be great for building quality content/conversations around the web…but would make the ability to engage/follow the conversations as a whole worse for the readers…guess it depends on your motivation/intent for your comment section…

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          Does isqus let you do that?. But JLM writes some good long ones.

      • http://avc.com fredwilson

        i mean limit on the number of words. not total comments. i think that would incite a riot.

  • http://veespo.com David Semeria

    Very nice chart William! May I “borrow” it? ;-)

    • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

      Of course! I’ll do an update in a week and might turn it into a better Infographic eventually.

      I have forgotten Tagging as a gesture. It goes somewhere prob in Curation or Attention.

      • http://veespo.com David Semeria

        Thanks William!
        We see tags less as a way of classifying and more as a very concise language of expression.
        I don’t have your email, so ask Arnold to forward our latest presentation.
        I’d be interested to hear your comments…

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          Go here, and I revealed my email to you http://www.engag.io/wmougayar
          That’s one of the uses of Engagio. You can privately reveal your email to close contacts without going through that awkward moment of asking for it in the comment spaces.

      • http://leighhimel.blogspot.com leigh

        There is definitely something to this chart.  I have our design strategist looking at it to see if he can create something for our own purposes and i’ll send along if he comes up with anything interesting (and yes it will be prettier not that i don’t love your clip art ;)

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          Wow…so asking for the chart is a good sign. I think it does capture the essence of the social web’s people activity.

        • http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

          open source visualization

      • http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

        I tag extensively fr curation on readitlater (migrated from instapaper for synch speed)

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          Is that public?

          • http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

            It may be

    • http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

      I liked the chart too. Pretty snazzy.

  • JLM

    Very insightful comment. Well played!

    • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

      Good to see the great minds of AVC come for a visit. It makes me wanna blog more…:) Thanks.

      • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

        You def should! Too many insights not to. It’s unfair to your readers/fans if you don’t hahah #butimnotjoking!

  • http://knowabout.it/ falicon

    You mentioned it already in other comments…but tagging is def. an action to include…and I would go so far as to say ‘blogging’ itself is also a social action (it’s the main conversation starter online after all).

    I probably spend way too much time pondering this overall topic myself…and one ‘real-world’ interaction that I’ve not yet seen done well online is around the concept of ‘thinking of you’…do you think there is an equiv. online?  Some ‘people tagging’ is in that direction, but it’s really not that good or close yet (I’m thinking more of the bits/times in life when you see something or do something that triggers another person or memory in your mind…and you either go out of you way to then reach out to that person to share with them or at the very least bring up the moment the next time you see that person)…

    Anyway, just one of the many rabbit holes my brain wanders down from time to time related to this topic…

    • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

      Kevin, wow man. This is interesting. Lemme try and gather my thoughts that you triggered with your comment. 

      Here’s my question to you, in a nutshell: do you think the social web is heading towards a more “lazy engaging” way on average? I’ve been thinking about this recently. Are people spending less time typing comments/writing blog posts and more time just clicking, linking, liking, sharing, hearting/favoriting/re-pinning… essentially ‘communicating/showing a person that you’re thinking of them/agree with the person’s thoughts/etc.’ through a simple, fast social gesture? I know that sounds like a mouthful haha. 

      ***
      Actually, lemme try to break it down like this. I’m sure you’re familiar (maybe/probably even more familiar than I am) with the 1/9/90 rule of user generated content: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture)

      When we’re talking about the 9% of people who “edit/modify/react to” the content created by the 1%, do you think the trend among this group is towards more “lazy” forms of reaction/engagement? Say I create content in the form of posting a status on Facebook. Of course, I’ll probably get more likes (“lazy engagement”) than comments (“opposite-of-lazy-engagement” haha) in general, but nowadays do you think the trend is towards simply “liking” it than actually commenting at all? Or Instagram where the content is “photos”. I wonder if since the beginning of Instagram, the 9% of reactors/engagers have trended downward in regards to actually commenting on cool photos and now more-so just “like” the photo? 
      ***

      Not sure I know how I got on this topic off your comment or where I’m going with it yet, but this is something I’m trying to flesh out in my own mind and I think there are at least a couple startups thinking about this. For example, as I mentioned in another comment on this thread, the startup Branch is playing with this concept (see the discussion on it here: http://beta.branch.com/on-sunday-i-m-interviewing-nick-denton-at-sxsw-about-gawker-the-failure-of-comments-have-web-comments-failed) by limiting the length of comments and limiting the folks who can participate in the conversation. 

      Also, William is doing some cool stuff with Engagio by letting you share your email address privately with someone by simply giving them a custom Engagio link to your profile… sort of a “lazy” social gesture to initiate future high quality engagement over email, etc. Could there be a derivative of this that is the ‘online equivalent’ of what you’re talking about in regards to “showing someone I’m thinking about them”?

      Very long comment, but the short of it is that I really wonder what is “next” when it comes to social gestures, and if it will be ways to engage in long-form or more “lazy” forms…

      • http://knowabout.it/ falicon

        Awesome stuff!

        So my quick thoughts are that both are needed and both will grow…

        More and more lazy forms will be adopted by the masses so long as there is some ‘perceived’ benefit to the action (I click ‘like’ buttons all the time, but why do I do that? If I’m being honest, I do it because I hope that the ‘author’ notices it and feels a bit rewarded for it [and I hope that others 'like' my stuff for the same small vanity reasons])…if it’s quick, simple, and seems like someone gets something out of it…more people will adopt it (and I think the more powerful the benefit of the action, the more people will adopt it — so I think the challenge in the lazy form is more about increasing the benefit of the action than anything else)

        More and more long forms will be adopted by the select few that find ways to greatly benefit from the work involved…those that put in the effort to build a great website are now reaping the benefits of that work…those that put in all the effort to build up a quality blog are now reaping the benefits…those that are starting to build up quality twitter streams, pintrest boards, and other mid-to-long form services are starting to reap the rewards that come from that work…(in this case, I think the lazier the form, the harder it is to greatly benefit [at least in the monitary sense -- though this hopefully isn't all just about the money for everyone]).

        …so I guess I’m saying those looking for quick, simple, and personal benefits will adopt more of the lazy form things…those looking for deeper and more meaningful benefits will adopt more of the long form things…(and the majority of us will attempt to find the happy medium that gives us the best of both worlds for our own situations).
        :-)

        • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

          ON POINT KEVIN. 

          I think you nailed it in the summary and conclusions you made on this whole conversation topic. In regards to the “lazy” segment, I just wonder how many of the 1% and 9% of the past decade (call it the “Web 1.0 and 2.0 seasoned veterans”) are ‘worn out’ in some sort from creating longer form content that takes the extra work, and are starting to trend towards easier ways of still maintaining their influence and audience… but for much less the effort. 

          A case study might be: Tumblr, where perhaps the “former non-lazy-content-creator” has abandoned his/her longer form content creation and transitioned to Tumblr in order to curate the best images/quotes/videos and occasionally post short-form written stuff — all in much less time than writing longer posts. And, to continue this example, I wonder if his/her audience in this case (the 9% of the 1/9/90, right?) is spending much less time commenting and instead doing the quick, “lazy” action of re-blogging/liking… 

          But I’m not sure, and after re-reading your comment again, I really think you’ve nailed it on all fronts. 

          I will add that I don’t think it’s “all just about the money for everyone” — I think plenty of the 1% and 9% of the 1/9/90 rule do this stuff for the relationships that come from their hard work… and for the opportunities that those relationships bring (which can be very complex in all the ways these opportunities can be beneficial, and of which I don’t think ‘making more money’ is always the end-all, be-all factor). 

          Appreciate the long-form insight here, Kevin. Learning a lot tonight hahaaa. Take care man.

        • panterosa,

          It seems to me like ants laying down pheromones. The return path with food is double scented, hence others will follow it and strengthen it. Mainly people are laying out their own pheromone trails within their own networks to end points they want to connect to. You are asking to quantify that network of relationships for each person into a service which would track those dynamics. #watchmoreants

          • http://knowabout.it/ falicon

            I’m just waiting for all us ants to finally look down and realize we’re all actually on one massive mountain of sugar! Which means just about every path can lead to happiness! ;-)

      • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

        It is becoming difficult to reach a 30/30/30 optimum, but that should be a theoretical ideal perhaps? But the social web has definitely made some of us “lazy”- that’s for sure.

    • http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

      I think “poking” on FB was “thinking of you” for some of us but it was too nebulous — and I always had in the back of my mind the way that term is used in a much different context as much as I tried to dislodge the thought. So we’re still back to where we started — this is a good point, Kevin.

      I especially feel this loss on Twitter — so many people I’d love to salute to let them know I haven’t forgotten them but don’t have time to truly engage. What would really be cool is some sort of reminder — you haven’t “touched” so and so in a while — and I could have all the people I wanted to be reminded to interact with in a “group” of sorts.

      Nimble sends me a daily update on activities of people I’m connected to. That’s actually a very nice feature.

      • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

        We thought about doing the reminder thing. It has to be done right.

        The trick is not to be remind you of things you already know. That annoys people.

        • http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

          That seems to be THE fine line — the one between being helpful — especially in a creative or innovative way — and being annoying. But companies like Disqus and even Twitter have stored up enough cred with users that we allow them some mistakes. We know that in the end they really are trying to serve us. Engagio has the makings of creating this type of relationship with users. But I understand that you will want to do things right and smart. Users only have so much tolerance.

  • http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

    Dig how your mind struggles to organize the ceaseless flow of social data and real life relationships. Also, you attracted fantastic comments which show you’re on to something :)
    Look forward to the rest of the series.

    • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

      Ha, no kidding right Mark? Trying to read every comment here myself too. Quality of the comments/commenters is so legit. There’s something to the community Fred Wilson (and Suster to be honest) has created. It’s so strong, many recognizable faces helping @wmoug:disqus frame his thinking around Engagio. 

      I have high expectations for this series as well. 

      • FAKE GRIMLOCK

        BLOGS ARE THE NEW STARTUP INCUBATOR.

        • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

          Hmmm, okay okay I feel you. 

          The community aspect of the blogs (and the communities with very seasoned “members”, if you will) are the closest to  the new “free startup incubator”, agreed? 

          I look at Ben Horowitz as writing the absolute best pound-for-pound content on the web for startup founders (at least those with ambitions of becoming CEO’s). However, there are no comments to his blog and thus no community… so I’d say his blog is closer to a “how to textbook” being published in ‘the now’ as opposed to “20 years from now, based on my career of a couple decades ago” – you know? 

          I agree with you though. On average, I think people in the tech world might overlook the impact blogs like Fred’s, Feld’s, Suster’s, etc. have had on the industry. For me as a student going through undergrad the past 4 years… it has been UNBELIEVABLE the amount I’ve learned and the friends I’ve made entirely through reading blogs like Suster’s. I’m sure you’ve had a similar experience, even if only a couple people actually know who you “really are” haaa

          • FAKE GRIMLOCK

            COMMUNITY REQUIRE FOCAL POINT.

            BLOG ON STARTUP GREAT FOCAL POINT.

            COMMUNITY OF STARTUP PEOPLE RESULT IN MORE STARTUP.

            IT INEVITABLE CONSEQUENCE.

            WORLD NEED BETTER TOOLS FOR DO WHAT FRED, SUSTER DO THROUGH MANUAL EFFORT.

          • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

            No doubt. 

            I think there is something to the idea of Fred/Suster/Feld having spent years of manual effort creating a “free startup university” of sorts. 

            It seems like you’re thinking of educational type tools to aggregate all of their hard work maaaaaaaaaaybe? Not sure I completely understand the point you make here at the end. But that’s on me, not you. 

            Appreciate the conversation my man.

          • FAKE GRIMLOCK

            MEAN BETTER TOOLS FOR CREATE GOOD COMMUNITY, REWARD SHARE INFORMATION, CREATE ENVIRONMENT FOR COLLABORATION.

          • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

            “Niiiiiiiice” (Fabolous voice)

            Have you recently checked up on the progress of that one AVC regular who was working on the ‘startup life virtual game/world’ or something? Know what I’m talking about? He had written a guest post on AVC I believe.

            Seems like he would probably have some compelling insights on this. 

  • http://jacxu.com/ Jac Xu

    Engagio is an awesome integrated social media tools. A brilliant idea to save our time and efforts.

    • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

      I hear you Jacqueline, 100%. I’m getting into it as well. Do you spend more time actually engaging on Engagio (writing responses and stuff) or do you like browsing other people’s profiles and checking out your “engagement stats”?

      I’m still using it more so to study my own engagement habits and research where others are commenting online and who they interact with the most, and then making sure I haven’t lost track of any conversations by paying attention to my inbox.

      How long have you been in NYC by the way?

      • http://jacxu.com/ Jac Xu

        It came cross me because one of my friend is talking it in his blog http://www.arnoldwaldstein.com/blog, it’s a potential tool for marketers.  I have just been NYC for 3 months

        • http://www.johnexleyonline.com JohnExley

          Ahhh I see I see – he’s also a big AVC community member. Him and William (founder of Engagio) are friends I believe through AVC. I hadn’t seen that post before and will read it and check it out now.  

          However, more importantly, welcome to NYC Jacqueline! What do you think so far? What are you working on in the city?

          • http://jacxu.com/ Jac Xu

            Love it, so many things going on. 

    • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

      Thanks Jacqueline. Are you in NYC? I will look you up next time. I was there today/yesterday.

      • http://jacxu.com/ Jac Xu

        Yes. I am in NYC.  The Engagio came cross to me because I met Arnold Waldstein and start to read his blog. (http://www.arnoldwaldstein.com/blog), so I play it a little bit.  It is very interesting and potential product.  As a marketer, I wished we could have a tool handle every social media channel. 

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          Great. I’ll contact you via email.

  • http://www.innovativedisruption.com thinkdisruptive

    Hi William. Thought I’d add some specific notes to your site, rather than the disruption dialog we had going on Mark’s site.

    This would be so much more powerful if it could also link personal blogs from places like WordPress, Hubspot, Typepad. Specifically to your point about the strength of direct engagement and comments, versus Likes, Sharing and Linking. Much of the best intellectual content is not originally posted to commercial sites that tend to use Disqus, Livefyre, LinkedIn or Facebook. This is fine for aggregating the big guys, but that doens’t really require a special dashboard. If you could tie in to APIs from the 3 blog tools above in addition to the common social tools, you’d capture >95% of the places I care about, and it would be worth living in this tool. If you did, both my personal blog and Mark’s site where were conversing would show up here, for example. (And, I’d give you more likelihood of disrupting because you’d be offering something very unique tying together the places where strong engagement happens.)

  • http://abdallahalhakim.tumblr.com/ Abdallah Al-Hakim

    Most people read interesting articles/posts and do nothing afterwards. A social gesture button that ‘inspires’ the reader to take action could be useful. Linked to that gesture – there could be a database outlining all of those who were inspired and what they did about it. This puts in place a procedure that someone can follow when they are super excited about a particular post they read and want to do something about it.

    • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

      Interesting thought. So what would be an example of that “doing something”?

      • http://abdallahalhakim.tumblr.com/ Abdallah Al-Hakim

        An example would be for instance if you read an article or a book about email marketing strategies. Post-reading, you can link to a page where can list your planned initiatives and have your followers be witnesses to your promise. Your followers will hold you accountable for your promises and will exert a ‘peer-pressure’ influence to encourage you to successfully complete the tasks.

        There could be an “inspire button” associated with the online-article or book that indicated how many people were inspired and actually did something about it.

        I hope this is a bit clearer. The idea is still developing in my head and was stimulated after a talk I had with a friend of mine who is CEO of Readitfor.me http://www.readitfor.me/about-us/

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          I’m thinking about this and will check it out. Are you in Toronto? Email me. I just revealed my email to you via Engagio. It will appear when you preview my profile: http://www.engag.io/wmougayar

          • http://abdallahalhakim.tumblr.com/ Abdallah Al-Hakim

            just emailed you!

      • http://abdallahalhakim.tumblr.com/ Abdallah Al-Hakim

        FYI. I tried to use engagio to reply to your comment but the disqus comment was not showing up on my profile. There is probably a lag time before it updates.

        • http://engag.io/ William Mougayar

          There is a 5-10 mins delay typically. I just replied to both of your messages via Engagio.

          • http://abdallahalhakim.tumblr.com/ Abdallah Al-Hakim

            That’s what I figured. It is easier to reply via engagio once the comments appear :)

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